Badwater did what many are hoping Boston will do.
For those not familiar with Badwater, it is, without a doubt, one of the most difficult footraces in the world. Starting at 282 feet below sea level in the Badwater Basin of California’s Death Valley (the lowest point in North America), and ending at an elevation of 8,360 feet at Whitney Portal, (the trailhead to Mount Whitney, the highest point in the lower 48), Badwater tests the souls, bodies, and well, soles of its competitors. Well, now it is testing them more.
Early in October, Badwater announced it would be moving its overall cutoff from 60 hours to 48. Stating “…given the historical trend of the whole Badwater race field getting faster, it was inevitable that the overall cut-off for the race would drop…” Badwater has decided that people are challenging themselves more these days and therefore they will up the ante. This is exactly what the Boston Marathon should do.
I had a brief conversation with a writer who covers ultra events and when I stated something akin to how Badwater’s very generous 60 hour cutoff was making the race yet another thing to simply check off the list of “have dones”, he agreed. If it is going to bill itself as the world’s toughest footrace then it should be, you know, a foot race. That is tough.
Badwater is definitely on my to-do list. Given the heat, the extremes and the like, it would be quite the challenge for a person like myself who does horribly in warm weather. Now that they have made it more difficult to actually complete the race, it is moving closer toward the top of my list. This is not an elitist attitude. I simply wish for the accomplishment that I have strived for not to be water-downed. While it may be a few years until I finally get out to Death Valley to give it a shot, I am already applauding this decision to adjust the cutoff time. It reflects the times and also continues to give those who have achieved the highest level of athletic achievement in this sport, a reason to continue to feel good.
The question now remains if the belt buckle that runners receive for finishing under 48 hours (sort of the Grade A level of achievement at this race) will also be affected. Will runners now be expected to reach a different benchmark in order to receive the buckle?
{ 42 comments }
Hi there, this is an interesting perspective…I have a friend that has completed it. I don’t know his time but think he is a awesome athlete…I would like to consult him on his perspective! take care, Selina
Hi there, this is an interesting perspective…I have a friend that has completed it. I don’t know his time but think he is a awesome athlete…I would like to consult him on his perspective! take care, Selina
“I simply wish for the accomplishment that I have strived for not to be water-downed.”
This is not an elitist attitude? What does this say to all the runners who have run this race over the last number of years?
“Now that they have made it more difficult to actually complete the race, it is moving closer toward the top of my list.”
Are you saying in the past this race just wasn’t worth running, because it was to easy for you to finish?
I’d love for you to explain your position on these two points a bit more in detail.
Hi Dane,
If you get selected to run Badwater, let me know. I might be able to help crew for you. I was on Colin Anderson’s crew and witnessed his valiant but unsuccessful attempt in 2010. We found out after the race that he did have Mono.
The race start temps in July 2010, were 108. By 4pm temps had reached 131. And at 1am they had dropped to 115. The wind blew at a constant 20+ MPH. Think convection oven.
The only thing I’ve ever experienced that was similar to Badwater is sitting in a heat room (150 degrees) at the gym.
Definitely an “I did this race.” The buckle is amazing and you can wear it in public, unlike the 100′s of marathon finishers medals you have.
Good luck.
Selina,
he may very well be an awesome athlete. But as i mentioned, the world’s toughest footrace should not be one for just any particular person to be able to get into on a whim. I’d like to get into the Olympics but I am simply not talented enough to do so. I don’t want them to make it any easier for me to do so either.
Scott,
Thank you for your offer. I will not be applying any time soon but will assuredly keep it in mind. Very kind of you indeed.
Tim,
It says exactly what I said it did, especially in today’s world. We have a far better understanding of the human body, we are far better equipped with fabrics, liquids, and other products to make the 48 hour time limit what the old 60 hour time limit was. As for the runners in the past who have completed this race, I am sure they really do not care too much what I have to say -which is great. It is their achievement and they can be as proud or not proud of it as they want. However, in today’s age, a 60 hour time limit is extremely generous and therefore a completion in the 48-60 hour frame is far less impressive than the sub-48 time frame.
Yes – that is exactly what I am saying. Badwater was completely a loser event that was so far below me that it was ridiculous. And since you may have missed my intense sarcasm here, I will clarify that last statement was obviously said with the biggest eye roll possible. How “Now that they have made it more difficult to actually complete the race, it is moving closer toward the top of my list.” can be construed as “…in the past this race just wasn’t worth running, because it was to easy for you to finish…” is beyond me. I like my challenging goals to be just that- challenging. Ergo, now that it is MORE difficult, I am MORE likely to want to do it. (e.g. like 9 is more than 8 but on a scale of 1-10, 8 is not tiny.) Even previously when it was LESS difficult to complete, it was still on my list of desired races to run.
I am of course, risking the possibility I am just feeding the trolls here with my response but I am quite sure this explains my position perfectly and in more detail. Hope you loved it.
You continue to show a pattern here and on your Facebook page, Dane, that if someone disagrees with you, you reply with such a condescending tone. I’m guessing this is the reason why so many people, who you like to think is just one or two, respond with such vigor in return.
What I’m sure is frustrating for you, is that unlike your blog, where you only allow the positive comments to show up, and on Facebook, when someone disagrees with your comments you “unfriend” them, here you actually have to respond and defend yourself to the “trolls”, as you rudely like to call people.
Why are you so insistent on defining what everyone’s experience should be?
It is unreal to me that you can dismiss anyone who finished the race in over 48 hours. It’s bad enough to dismiss them. Even worse when you’ve never finished the race.
Well, Tim, unless you are using a fake name I know that you can’t see my Facebook page to tell me what I do or do not do. Nevertheless, you can read whatever you would like into my written word and if you feel there is a condescending tone, so be it. Not much I can do about that. I answered your questions as succinctly as possible but won’t apologize because you didn’t like the way they were answered.
Calling something watered-down and dismissing someone entirely are two completely separate things, Mike. If you wish to tell me what I am doing and saying, please don’t invent my opinions. One does not have to have done every single thing in the world to be able to comment on it intelligently and the fact remains that a 60-hour cutoff for this race definitely dilutes its status as the toughest footrace in the world. Which is one of the reason why the race directors themselves have changed it. They realized 60 hours was far too generous! Elitist bastards.
Quoting from your article this is where you are dismissing 48+ hour finishers: “I had a brief conversation with a writer who covers ultra events and when I stated something akin to how Badwater’s very generous 60 hour cutoff was making the race yet another thing to simply check off the list of “have dones”, he agreed. If it is going to bill itself as the world’s toughest footrace then it should be, you know, a foot race. That is tough.”
Kind of hard to read that any way other than dismissing the runners. It isn’t a “foot race” or “tough”. It just on the “have dones” list.
As far as “watering down” is concerned the only person who could water down your finishing of Badwater in any time is you.
Who the hell cares what anyone else thinks of your time? Only you can “water it down”. A person’s finish and his finishing time belongs solely to that person. It is what it is. If you finish Badwater in 47 hours you finished in 47 hours. Some person finishing in 70 hours neither diminishes nor enhances what you did.
At the Carlsbad 5000 last year, Eliud Kipchoge finished in 13:11. Jack Green finished in 1:05:28. Was Kipchoge’s finished “watered down”.
I have no problem with Badwater changing the cutoff times. What I took from your article was that you were applauding it because you are thinking of doing it one day, you think you can finish in under 48 hours, and your accomplishment will be magnified if everyone slower than you is eliminated from the field so that you can remain in the elite group of finishers.
The tone of the article is very similar to one who when he gives his SAT scores is sure to let everyone know that the the test was taken before the average score was re-centered to 1000 so that everyone knows that the SAT score was in fact impressive.
I am curious why you would call the rigorous qualification for Badwater “a whim.”
Just saying “This is not an elitist attitude” dows not make it so. But in your case you may be right: It’s more of an “ignorant” attitude.
Mike,
Kind of hard for YOU to read it any other way. I can’t write my article to fit the tastes, tones and reading comprehension of everyone at the same time. As for your Carlsbad analogy- the 5k they run doesn’t bill itself as the World’s Hardest Footrace. The tone of my article is if I want to push myself to do something challenging, I want it to actually be challenging.
And 60 hours is not challenging, hence my “whim” comment (to address the other commenter’s statement ending in a question mark) which I further explained with the Olympics comment that followed it. So i am not sure what you are curious about.
From my point of view, Badwater is first of all a fantastic Human adventure and experience. More than a race, more than a physical exercice, it let you explroe your deepest ressources, both mental and physical. I had the chance to run and complete it last summer. Since then, every day I think to our journey in Death Valley with all my crew members (my wife and friends).
We came from France and it was really a very challenging project.
I will never forget these days of july 2010… I hope to run it one more time.
Thanks for that to AdventureCorps and Chris Kostman!
Sincerely yours,
Vincent Toumazou
PS: we made a movie during the race. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtT6AEnj-Ns
No. You said (above): “the world’s toughest footrace should not be one for just any particular person to be able to get into on a whim.”
People do not get into this race on a whim. I have been there. If your attitude was not so pitiful it would be offensive. As it stand, I am considering the source: Pitiful.
Hey 60 hours may not be challenging to you, mighty dane (eye roll…major), but Terry (above) was asking about your dig at the QUALIFYING for the race, which you clearly dissed when you said outright that anyone could get in on a whim. Do you even know what qualifying means?
You’re not a very clear communicator if you think that everyone who disagrees with you is either not reading you correctly or reading what is not there. Maybe you ought to consider the possibility that you are not a good writer and that you are an epic blowhard. Introspection is tough.
The best part about getting into Badwater on a whim?
Dane doesn’t even meet the qualifications standards to even be considered to get into the race.
http://www.badwater.com/reg.html
And Dane you are correct about one thing. It is difficult for ME to follow the moving target that is your claimed point of anything you write.
Terry,
Even though you personally attack me (always the sign of a very good argument, by the way) I will respond. You are correct. I said getting into the race on a whim when that was not what I meant. However, I still believe that the minor qualifications are not all that impressive either. Merely finishing three hundred mile races in the generous time limits given for many 100 mile races is really not something which should even get you into the hopper to be chosen for Badwater – if it is indeed the Toughest Foot race in the world. I do not care either way if you have been there. Especially since I have made it clear that just getting there is not something I find all that impressive. Want to know what is really pitiful? Sniping from a hidden spot behind a keyboard like a child.
Stay with it, Mike. I am sure that with hard work you will be able to formulate an opinion that is actually based on something coherent and not conjecture or posturing. I have faith in you!
How silly. Of course I am here in front of my keyboard (cant fit under it as I am kinda tall). I’m not hiding. I am clearly communicating my opinion and signing my name. Much the same as those people who seem to be in agreement with you. I don’t see you calling them out for “hiding behind their computers or keyboards” or what have you. What would you have me do? Print my full name or actually email you directly? Do you know anything about online safety? Get real.
No one. No. One. who has ever qualified for or run this race can take your opinions seriously. At best you seem spectacularly unhinged. How can you possibly have such a thin skin? If you are so convinced of your rightness why bother with us “trolls?”
“We have a far better understanding of the human body, we are far better equipped with fabrics, liquids, and other products to make the 48 hour time limit what the old 60 hour time limit was.”
Man, I’ve gotta find me those fabrics, liquids and other products that will take 12 hours off my time at Badwater. I should be able to break 15 hours!
Dane, besides what everyone above has said to you, it amazes me that you think you can be such an expert on this race when you’ve neither qualified, run, crewed, or even stood anywhere along the course to even have the slightest idea what it entails.
But then again, you’re Dane!
The essence of a footrace is running from the starting point to the finishing point in the fastest possible time. I don’t consider Badwater a footrace.
It is an endurance event with similar characteristics to a footrace. If the race organizers were interested in determining who could run from Badwater to Whitney Portals the fastest, they would hold a race during the time of year when the winner would most likely be determined based upon their running ability to cover the distance and terrain.
However, the race organizers hold the race during the hottest time of year to add an additional element of handing the heat while covering the distance. With the addition of intentionally adding the extra heat element, Badwater becomes something other than a footrace. This additional barrier may attract people who want to challenge themselves to see how they can take on this endurance adventure. But it isn’t a footrace. This is not to say a footrace is intrinsicly better than Badwater. It is just that Badwater is not a footrace.
I’d agree with Dane that the qualifying standards should be tightened for the Boston Marathon. There are a limited number of spots available to run this prestigious footrace. When Aristotle was asked how should the best flutes in the world be distributed, Aristotle replied that the best flute players should receive them. Aristotle argues that the best flutes should go to the best flute-players because that’s what flutes are for.
The purpose of flutes is use in flute-playing; and the flutes should go to those who can best play them the best. The purpose of race numbers is for racing. The best racers should get them.
Being available to register for a few hours on one weekday, should not be the barrier to register for a prestigious footrace like the Boston Marathon. The race organizers should make an effort so that the fastest runners who are interested in running the race are given the opportunity to race (within reason). Tightening the qualifying standards is the most just way to ensure that would be done.
Increasing register fees, a lottery system, or other barriers to limit the race popoulation and allocate the limited numbers will cause the race to lose integrity from what is supposed to be measured in a footrace.
simpleton, are you a regular LR tool?
yes, I read the forum at letsrun from time to time.
Do you agree or disagree with my opinion? If you disagree, which point(s) do you disagree with and why?
simpleton I am wondering why all the commentary about Boston when Sir Dane of Delusion was talking about Badwater?
Badwater is not a footrace? Last I ran it, nothing but my own two feet (and shoes or course – the pavement is hot) carried me from Badwater to Whitney. Take away the heat, take away the hills, take away the wind and the sand storms…and only then is it a footrace? Nah! It’s hot in Death Valley in July. Heck, it’s hot there in December! Bring on the heat. And the hills and whatever else makes this a tough footrace, and may the best (i.e. fastest) man or woman win.
The winning times used to be in the 40s, now it’s sub-24. Most runners finish under 48 hrs. Obviously, there is no special shirt or shoe that will cut 12 hrs from your finish (though special shirts and shoes are admittedly helpful), but now, as opposed to ancient times in the 80s and even 90s, *information* about the race is readily available. There is immediate access to how to train, how to crew, what to bring, how to pace, what to wear, where to stay, when to rest, when to push, how to cool down, how to treat blisters, and when to seek medical attention. It’s all immediately available to anyone, whether you want to run to win or walk to finish.
I was one of the first in 2004 to use dry ice. I used it because I learned in 2003 that one crew van was *perhaps* not enough when ice was only available for purchase 40 miles away…that’s a looong time for a runner and pacer to be alone on the course without crew support. Not a good thing. Now most people use dry ice. It’s much easier. No, it’s not going to make you win the race, but it IS helpful, very helpful because ice is like gold in Death Valley. There are lots of other things like medical support IMO that make finishing Badwater more certain than in past years/decades.
I have been at the race in some capacity every year since 2003, and I bring a box of Klenex to the finish line. Witnessing *anybody’s* finish is extraordinary and inspirational to me, especially the last finishers.
It is a journey, yes. It is a phenomenal experience to run or crew or pace (or watch via the webcast) this race. It is life-changing, life affirming, one of the richest experiences that I have experienced. Anybody at any time can cross Death Valley. No one is forbidding them the experience.
That said, Badwater is a footrace. You pay to run it, you get a race number, there’s a starting line and a finish line, and the first person to cover the distance by the power of his or her own feet wins. And over the years the finish times have dropped significantly. In my opinion, anyone that qualifies under the current standards has a very good chance of finishing under 48 hrs. Sure, some won’t; there are always DNFs in races.
There are many other awesome “journey” races out there. I have run some of them. The cutoff times are stricter and the finishing rates significantly lower. These are tough races but not so tough that someone who prepares and trains can’t do them. There are also many reasons to make Badwater a “faster” footrace, and the debate here is good, but there are other perspectives too that we, as runners, sometimes forget to think about. But that’s a whole other topic perhaps.
So, 48 it is. I can’t wait to go back and run this “world’s toughest footrace” again. I have great admiration for anyone that has toed the start line, regardless of whether they have been able to finish or not. I have great admiration for the race itself and how it has adapted over the years (certainly some will see that differently), and for those who support the race as crews and pacers. Their job is not an easy one, but it is exceedingly important to the success of the runner. I also admire those that have chosen to go to Death Valley and carry all their supplies with them from Badwater to Whitney. While not a footrace, it must be an incredible journey to do that!
I wish you all well in whatever you dream to accomplish.
Run on, walk on, on on!
It isn’t the hills or the distance or wind or the fact the race runs through a desert that makes it something other than a footrace. It is intentionally including heat as a fundamental challenge in the event. The event is intentionally held at a time of the year when the participants will likely have to deal with some of the hottest desert temperatures of the year that makes it something other than a footrace.
You go on to say how valuable dry ice is and how you were one of the first to use it, so you understand that the challenge of battling the heat is a fundamental feature of this endurance event. The event is designed to determine who can both deal with the desert heat in July and cover the distance in the fastest time. The event isn’t designed to determine who can run from Badwater to Whitney Portal the fastest.
If an event required you to climb over 8 foot barriers, go through pre-planned mud pits, and through big metal pipes and through a section that you had to swamp through where water came up to your shoulders while you crossed it, the event would no longer be a footrace in my mind. It would be a mud run. There are lots of mud runs these days and they sell out. If that is what people enjoy, go for it. However, the event would not classify as a footrace in my mind even though the participants travelled on their own feet.
I am not saying a footrace is better than something like Badwater. It is that they are different events designed to determine winners and challenge people in different ways.
@ simpleton – I think you’re splitting hairs, and making a logically fallacious argument. You propose that to be a “footrace” all adverse conditions except terrain and distance must be removed. By this logic, if there is a cold rain the day of the Boston Marathon, it should cancel and reschedule, or risk no longer being a “footrace” in your mind, instead jumping to the category of “endurance run” due to the cold rain in the runners eyes. Maybe you would then wish to except “unforeseeable” adverse conditions, but your strict definition of footrace become weaker and more arbitrary with each exception. As to your example of climbing walls and crawling through pipes, I think most people would reasonably agree that those are conditions wherein a race stops being a footrace, as it now involves other appendages. I believe a better working definition is that a “footrace” is simply any race completed on foot.
All this being said, I believe (and hope) your point originally was that Badwater is MORE than just a footrace. It is. I’ve never run it, but I’ve crewed it seven times, (which is arguably an ultra-event in itself) and paced several runners on the course. The heat, the wind, the sandstorms, the flash flooding, the traffic and the fighter jets breaking the sound barrier over our heads is all integral to the experience of this race. It is as much an experience, a rite of passage, and an induction into a tight-knit tribe of people as it is a footrace. As a member of that tribe, I can say wholeheartedly that it is definitely a footrace, and it is so much more.
@ everyone – I also wish to echo a point raised by Lisa. No finish of this race is insignificant, no matter the finish time. Everyone who has run it or crewed it has nothing but the deepest respect for those who have finished in the 50-60 hour range. They are the toughest warriors. There is a part of me that grieves the loss of this category, yet I cannot help but agree that it is time to move forward. Everything Lisa said is correct: the accumulated knowledge of crews makes running this race more efficient, so that the runners can just run. They no longer have to worry about there being enough ice. I am also relieved that I will never be required to crew another 56:52:54 race again. That was quite enough. :)
Hi Dane, an extract from your article made it to the Badwater news email. CONGRATULATIONS. That’s more prestigious than actually getting into the race :-)
Keith
P.S. It’s about time they made Badwater harder to complete. I heard that an old pink fairy can make it across that desert…
This guy’s got a nerve. Never been there. Never trained for it. Never qualified. Never crewed. Never nothin. Just talking because he has a mouth. A big one.
Let’s not pretend that one has to have run Badwater to know what it is about. Whether you believe Dane has run or crewed the race doesn’t remove his ability to a. have an educated opinion on the subject and b. qualify for the race. He ran 202 miles in just a shade over 50 hours. (admittingly, in seemingly easier conditions). He has run 84 miles in 12 hours. He holds the course record for a 50 miler in Florida. The man obviously has the running chops. If you don’t like his opinions, that is one thing. but to think he knows nothing about Badwater simply because he hasn’t been there is short-sighted and obviously an invalid point.
I ran the Badwater this year and went into the race shit scared, as I believe all runners should approach this race. If you don’t do your homework then it will get you, there are many weapons in its arsenal for it to use, all the environmental aspects expertly referred to by a number of experts above. But I did my homework, and I’m no great runner, let me tell you. Sure, I ran my socks off training for it for 2 years, during my initiation into this world of Ultra distance running, but my background was marathon running at best and Ironman Triathlon. So if i could do it in sub 48, (with quite a bit of walking) I think its doable by more than your average runner given a passion for it and a discipline to do the training and the homework required. I think its a good thing that 48 is now the ‘standard’ I want to come back next year and take this challenge on again. I love the environment, I love the inner feeling of peace you get out there, I love the camaraderie, I love the feeling i get from intensely concentrating for nearly two days, I love the challenge. I just loved it and hope to God I can come back and take it on again.
Dear “paul”,
Hi Dane.
Love, Jackie
Hey Jackie: You are absolutley right. If the content and tone did not give him away, the poor grammar certainly does.
Sorry, Jackie and Terry. I am unclear which grammar errors I made but I am not Dane!
Boiled down, I hear this: Too many finishers lessens the challenge. Or the glamor? I’m still not sure. Too generous a cutoff doesn’t provide the needed external motivation to run ones best? Someone else’s best detracts from one’s own best? Confusing.
“I’m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let’s start with typewriters.” –Frank Lloyd Wright.
Wow, Dane. I’ve never heard such skewed logic in my life. You’re basically saying that Zach Gingerich’s 24:44 at Badwater last year is “watered down” because the cutoff was 60 hours. Or, that he can’t feel good about it because of the 60-hour cutoff. That doesn’t make sense. Your thoughtless writing has diminished the efforts and accomplishments of a great many people who participate in endurance sports.
my MOst Urgent TO DO list! hope the day come and i am on start line of BadWater Ultra. Cheeeers
oh yes , my longest run is 120 km, need expert advise . pls may i get some info on how to participate, whats the basic criteria i need, and the main thing , cost . this is Raj from India.
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